NOVEMBER 3 VICTOR ECHO MIKE
  • Blog
  • Events and Activations
  • Diversions
  • About
  • Gallery
  • Contact
  • Links
  • Subscribe
  • Search
  • Blog
  • Events and Activations
  • Diversions
  • About
  • Gallery
  • Contact
  • Links
  • Subscribe
  • Search
NOVEMBER 3 VICTOR ECHO MIKE

ham radio Projects and musings from a (Relatively) new operator

fcc part ninety-what? 2nd edition

10/26/2016

13 Comments

 
     "I am the law" - Joseph Dredd (Sylvester Stallone, in Judge Dredd - 1995)
     So, those familiar with the movie, or the original comics will know that these judges had the power to arrest, convict, sentence, and execute criminals on the spot.   Luckily the FCC doesn't have that power, because sometimes the regulations can be a bit confusing, and I'd hate to be executed over a misunderstanding!
     With that thought in mind, here is another round of an observation I've made on the air, along with some of the applicable Part 97 regulations, and my best shot at interpreting them.  Feel free to comment, and maybe with some luck I'll get one of the Official Observers to jump in and let us all know if I've got my story right!

NPOTAthon 2.0

​Don't forget about my upcoming big event!  NPOTAthon 2.0 is coming on October 30th!
1 Crazy Ham
12 Parks
1 Day
Check it out here!

Picture
     We've all heard it - the person tuning up on top of someone else.  This specific activity is pretty easy to sum up, because Part 97 is littered with references stating that we must not "cause harmful interference to..."
     Part of the definition of Harmful Interference is "...obstructs or repeatedly interrupts a radiocommunication service operating in accordance with the Radio Regulations." 

But this post isn't about tuning up over top of someone else...

Picture
     It's really about tuning up, and station ID requirements.  There might be some minutia here, but the idea of tuning up always made me question how this type of transmission applies to the ID requirements.  Don't I have to ID every 10 minutes, and at the end of a transmission?  When I'm done tuning do I need to ID?

     To answer these questions, let's break it down.  First - it is clear that we are allowed to do short transmissions, where we don't expect an answer, in order to adjust our equipment.  This is covered in 97.111 where it talks about allowable transmissions.  Specifically this part: "(1) Brief transmissions necessary to make adjustments to the station."
     Okay, so I'm allowed to tune - good to know.  There are all kinds of scenarios that pop up after that but the ones I've been thinking about these:
  • ​An operators tunes up, but then doesn't call CQ, or talk to anybody.
    • ​In this case, the operator "broke the law" (watch over your shoulder for the Judge!!)  This is because tuning up does transmit a carrier, so you have in fact made a transmission.  The instant we make any kind of transmission, we fall under 97.119 which states that the station "must transmit its assigned call sign...at the end of each communication, and at least every 10 minutes during a communication."  If we tune up, and aren't planning on talking, we still need to ID ourselves.  A good practice to use might be to just give a quick "tuning complete N3VEM" at the end to keep Mr. Dredd off our backs.
  • An operator, being courteous, has moved down from another station a few kHz to tune, and then moves back up to the original frequency in order to answer the calling station.
    • So, this is an area that could get a little goofy.  We tuned up, but then we announced our call-sign as we attempted to answer the other station.  But we didn't announce our call sign on the exact same frequency that we tuned on.  Is that a problem?  The wording of Part 97 could be a bit gray, because it says (also in 97.119) that the station "must transmit its assigned call sign on its transmitting channel."  Well, Whisky Tango Foxtrot does that mean? Channel?  This is ham radio, not CB, and not TV - what on earth do they mean by Channel? As long as I'm still in the same band, is that my "Channel?"  Normally in any type of code, we just go to the definitions sections for questions like these.  Unfortunately, the FCC conveniently uses this word "Channel" all over Part 97, without defining it.  In these cases, the "suits" will generally tell you to reference the good old fashioned Merriam-Webster Dictionary.  The part of the definition that applies to us, is this one: "a band of frequencies of sufficient width for a single radio or television communication."  So basically, the bandwidth of our transmitted signal is our "channel".  This means that if we move far enough away from someone to keep from interfering with them, we probably moved far enough away that we are now considered to be in a different "Channel." For that reason, we probably need to ID ourselves when we're done tuning, before moving back up to the original frequency to answer the calling station.
     Not to be out-argued, someone who wanted to take the counter-point on my tuning argument could point out the fact that the statement that each station "must transmit its assigned call sign on its transmitting channel at the end of each communication, and at least every 10 minutes during a communication" uses another undefined word - communication.  Doesn't Mirriam-Webster say that communication is "a process by which information is exchanged between individuals?"  If i'm not talking to another individual, and I'm just tuning, I'm not actually communicating, so I don't have to ID...right?
     To that I would say "Nice Try"  because the full definition of communication includes some potentially, quite applicable alternative definitions, like "an act or instance of transmitting" which would imply it doesn't have to be a 2-way street.  Also, Part 97 includes in the section on ID requirements the phrase "
No station may transmit unidentified communications or signals" which implies it isn't just "communication" that needs an ID, but any signal you put out on the airwaves.
     I'm done.  I'm so glad I'm not a lawyer because these circular arguments could around and around.  If I had to argue in circles like that in front of Judge Dredd I'd probably get sick on his shoes.  Blech.
13 Comments
Matt Ahearn
10/27/2016 19:38:37

Excellent summary (said the guy that does those arguments in front of judges). I learned it this way: get the knobs as close as you know (tune receive to max noise). Ask if the frequency is in use with whatever signal you have and ID on first call. Tune 'er up to prime status. Call yer business, or ID again now that you're tuned up and state "clear."

When the law gets circular, common courtesy and kindness generally points to right way to a just interpretation.

Reply
Vance -N3VEM
10/27/2016 20:21:21

I feel honored that my logic passed the sniff test from someone that does that kind of stuff for a living. Thanks for the feedback!

Reply
k2ncc link
10/27/2016 20:45:51

"§97.111 Authorized transmissions.,

(b) In addition to one-way transmissions specifically authorized elsewhere in this part, an amateur station may transmit the following types of one-way communications:,

(1) Brief transmissions necessary to make adjustments to the station;"

Reasonable tuning-up of your transmitter, without IDing, is fine.

Reply
Vance - N3VEM
10/28/2016 06:09:38

When I was first pondering this topic I thought pretty much the same, based on the section of 97.111 that you referenced, and that I mentioned in my post. The main thing that makes me question that, is that 97.111 is not the section where ID requirements are discussed - it just talked about acceptable types of transmissions. That same section says we can make transmissions to exchange messages with other amateur stations, transmissions to disseminate bulletins, transmissions for telemetry, etc, but we don't assume we can make those transmissions without IDing.
For all those other types we still ID, because we have to refer to 97.119 to know when ID rules apply, and it seems to me like it's a fairly blanketing statement, implying that any time a transmission is made ID rules apply.
This is definitely deeper in the weeds than I'm sure maybe even the FCC is concerned about, and I'm sure the FCC may have put out a clarifying bulletin at some point like some on Facebook have suggested, but it at least makes for some interesting conversation!

Reply
Matthew Ahearn
10/28/2016 07:44:33

"Reasonable tuning-up of your transmitter, without IDing, is fine."

NEGATIVE - all transmissions no matter how brief must be identified.

The key phrase is

Just Google the enforcement actions on the 40m idiots over the years. Among the more serious violations you will note the inclusion of transmitting w/o ID and descriptions of the typical tuning violations one hears any day (and not prosecuted) because of wrong headed over-thinking of a confusing and obsolete regulatory scheme.

THe key phrase in the reg states "No station may transmit unidentified communications or signals, [...]"

That is the correct, and nly correct answer. It's that simple.

KB2PNN

Part 97 : Sec. 97.119 Station identification
(a) Each amateur station, except a space station or telecommand station, must transmit its assigned call sign on its transmitting channel at the end of each communication, and at least every 10 minutes during a communication, for the purpose of clearly making the source of the transmissions from the station known to those receiving the transmissions. No station may transmit unidentified communications or signals, or transmit as the station call sign, any call sign not authorized to the station.
(b) The call sign must be transmitted with an emission authorized for the transmitting channel in one of the following ways:

(1) By a CW emission. When keyed by an automatic device used only for identification, the speed must not exceed 20 words per minute;

(2) By a phone emission in the English language. Use of a phonetic alphabet as an aid for correct station identification is encouraged;

(3) By a RTTY emission using a specified digital code when all or part of the communications are transmitted by a RTTY or data emission;

(4) By an image emission conforming to the applicable transmission standards, either color or monochrome, of §73.682(a) of the FCC Rules when all or part of the communications are transmitted in the same image emission (

(c) One or more indicators may be included with the call sign. Each indicator must be separated from the call sign by the slant mark (/) or by any suitable word that denotes the slant mark. If an indicator is self-assigned, it must be included before, after, or both before and after, the call sign. No self-assigned indicator may conflict with any other indicator specified by the FCC Rules or with any prefix assigned to another country.

(d) When transmitting in conjunction with an event of special significance, a station may substitute for its assigned call sign a special event call sign as shown for that station for that period of time on the common data base coordinated, maintained and disseminated by the special event call sign data base coordinators. Additionally, the station must transmit its assigned call sign at least once per hour during such transmissions.

(e) When the operator license class held by the control operator exceeds that of the station licensee, an indicator consisting of the call sign assigned to the control operator's station must be included after the call sign.

(f) When the control operator is a person who is exercising the rights and privileges authorized by §97.9(b) of this part, an indicator must be included after the call sign as follows:

(1) For a control operator who has requested a license modification from Novice Class to Technical Class: KT;

(2) For a control operator who has requested a license modification from Novice or Technician to General Class: AG;

(3) For a control operator who has requested a license modification from Novice, Technician, General, or Advanced Class to Amateur Extra Class: AE.

(g) When the station is transmitting under the authority of §97.107 of this part, an indicator consisting of the appropriate letter-numeral designating the station location must be included before the call sign that was issued to the station by the country granting the license. For an amateur service license granted by the Government of Canada, however, the indicator must be included after the call sign. At least once during each intercommunication, the identification announcement must include the geographical location as nearly as possible by city and state, commonwealth or possession.

[54 FR 25857, June 20, 1989, as amended at 54 FR 39535, Sept. 27, 1989; 55 FR 30457, July 26, 1990; 56 FR 28, Jan. 2, 1991; 62 FR 17567, Apr. 10, 1997; 63 FR 68980, Dec. 14, 1998; 64 FR 51471, Sept. 23, 1999; 66 FR 20752, Apr. 25, 2001; 75 FR 78171, Dec. 15, 2010]

Reply
Myron
10/29/2016 09:37:02

...by CW transmission not exceeding 20wpm. Hmmm, let me get this straight. Suppose you happen across a CW contester blazing away at 30wpm. You listen for at least 10 minutes and you haven't heard the guy (or gal) slow down to 20wpm for station ID, even though he or she or even they have exchanged their call sign every time they make a QSO. Just not at 20wpm and not likely ever at the max allowed speed. What then?

Reply
Vance - N3VEM
10/29/2016 14:01:43

Another great point! By the purest letter of the law, that person would have technically violated the ID requirement, but I doubt it would ever become an issue. I think there are probably a lot of things in the bucket of "breaking the rules, but just a little bit" that many of us do all the time and never becomes an issue. I know in some cases in businesses and contracts, they end up talking about the "intent" of the law. These are probably cases where as long as it seems as though someone's intent is to be following the rules, they wouldn't be bothered too much. Luckily for me my CW is a blazing 5-7wpm at best, so I never even considered that nuance. Good catch!

k2ncc link
10/28/2016 19:57:49

Your confusing tuning with communications and signals. This has been beat2death elsewhere and answered. The FCC isn't quite as pedantic as you might think. vy 73

Reply
Vance - N3VEM
10/28/2016 20:37:20

I might be confusing them, but in the purest sense of the word, I would argue that the carrier put out during tuning is a signal.
I have to assume your probably right that the FCC doesn't really care this much about it - they've got enough trouble keeping on top of the real problems out there - I like to think of it more like a philosophical question, along the lines of "if everyone breaks the law by by going 5mph over the speed limit, does that make it right or just?"
I saw your note on Facebook that you thought the FCC actually issues some kind of statement on the topic - I'll browse around their site some more when I have some time, and see if I can't dig it up as well.
Thanks for all the conversation topics! It might be an old topic to some, but discussing things like this helps to keep us all sharp, and helps the new hams catch up on some of the nuances that aren't learned any other way than through these kinds of conversations!

Reply
Matthew Ahearn
10/29/2016 02:09:30

"No station may transmit unidentified communications or _signals_, [...]"

I once was pulled over by a Trooper for speeding on an interstate when I was just going with the flow. I explained that, and moaned as to why he picked me out of the pack when everyone was breaking the law.

He looked at my truck, the antennas and such. Said "You look like a man that fishes, are you?" Yes, I said. He replied:

"Ever catch 'em all?"

I've been retired from the practice a few years, but if you find an authoritative FCC citation that says you can tune w/o an ID I'll buy you a $25 Chinese handheld.

Reply
Vance - N3VEM
10/29/2016 09:39:18

Matthew,
I would love it if someone could produce something like that! In my industry, we are regulated by codes written by the NFPA which are about as much fun to read as Part 97. NFPA has an official channel to ask questions to get clarification statements - maybe I'll have to check to see if the FCC has a similar process...

Reply
Matthew Ahearn
10/29/2016 02:24:29

Here's a challenge for the non-believers - find an FCC test pool question in any set from any year where the right answer is "you don't have to ID when you tune up, if only briefly."

LOL

I'll eat my obsolete paper logbook, and tell you the year and legal reference that made the paper log book obsolete.

Reply
Chuck Furman link
11/4/2016 14:21:15

The intent of the rule is very clear... you must identify every 10 minutes and at the end of the communications, regardless of the transmission mode. And the identification must be on the same frequency.

There is no requirement to identify at the beginning of the communications. I do it anyway, just to be polite. I could call CQ by saying, "CQ CQ CQ this is Chuck in Dallas, Texas listening on 20 meters." That is perfectly legal, provided that I come back on within 10 minutes and start a QSO with my call sign, or say, "Nothing heard, KG6PH clear."

Regardless of the rules and regulations, I can't recall ever hearing someone tune up and then identify themselves. I'm sure some people do, but I typically just hear a carrier and then it goes away... with no ID.

What about someone tuning up without identifying, and then they come back on the same frequency and call CQ within 10 minutes? Would that comply with the rules? Do they need to mention that the previous carrier was from their station? Lots of grey areas in my opinion. I say, when in doubt, just identify yourself and be polite.

Chuck KG6PH

Reply

Your comment will be posted after it is approved.


Leave a Reply.

    Categories

    All
    Antenna
    Cw
    Digital-modes
    Flying-with-gear
    Home QTH
    Miscellaneous
    Mobile
    Operating Events
    Portable
    POTA
    Shack Build
    Technical


    - N3VEM -

         Welcome to my Ham Radio Blog!  This blog was started primarily to share my two concurrent shack builds - my mobile station and my home station.  Over time, this has grown to include sharing about my operations, and general radio-related thoughts that I have as a newer operator.  
         
    ​Enjoy!

    RSS Feed


    Picture
    POTA!

    Picture
    Proving that hams do indeed still build stuff!

    Picture
    100 Watts and Wire is an awesome community, based around an excellent podcast. 

    Archives

    September 2020
    July 2020
    January 2020
    September 2019
    August 2019
    July 2019
    June 2019
    May 2019
    March 2019
    January 2019
    December 2018
    November 2018
    October 2018
    September 2018
    August 2018
    July 2018
    June 2018
    May 2018
    April 2018
    March 2018
    February 2018
    January 2018
    December 2017
    November 2017
    October 2017
    September 2017
    August 2017
    July 2017
    June 2017
    May 2017
    April 2017
    March 2017
    February 2017
    January 2017
    December 2016
    November 2016
    October 2016
    September 2016
    August 2016
    July 2016
    June 2016
    May 2016
    April 2016
    March 2016
    February 2016
    January 2016
    December 2015
    November 2015


Picture
Copyright © 2015
 Vance Martin is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com.